[Poll] Which class is the most "must-have" to win matches?
| Poster | Message |
|---|---|
| JiK MAZZSuper Regular WMD Creator P: 05/06/2024 14:39 | Poll: Which class is the most "must-have" to win matches? Time remaining: 16 hours. 18 total votes. Vote for an option by clicking on it. Can offense thrive without any sollys? Without medics? Can defense hold without Engies? HWs? Demos? I left out pyros because they have no business being in this list. It has nothing to do with there only being 8 poll slots. |
| gg#4Super Regular Killer Scout P: 05/06/2024 15:08 | Engineers without a doubt |
| level1nobodySuper Regular Cold Giver P: 05/06/2024 15:23 E: 05/06/2024 18:46 | I choose medics, who have a slight edge over soldiers. Good defensive soldiers on the enemy team are the bane of my existence. But I always prioritize offense in these kinds of comparisons because you can win a match with 100% offense players, which you can't say for 100% defense. Offensive soldiers are a mixed bag. The chads out there will tear through a base and put points on the board. Other soldiers will choose bridge DM or get stuck fighting everyone due to their slow speed. Medics, on the other hand, are simply too useful. They're fast, conc-jumping, healing, self-healing, well-rounded in stats and can mid-air moonwalk past layers of enemy defense. As for engineers, I'd probably split hairs over the meaning of "decent." Just putting a gun in the basement shouldn't be too much to ask for a barely-capable engy. |
| Judge HoldenSuper Regular Scout Crowbar Master P: 05/06/2024 17:03 E: 05/06/2024 17:10 | as the most offensive player (literally and maybe figuratively) in the server's history, i can say without a doubt that good D solly's are the most important thing to stop good O and the most difficult to overcome. that being said, the O med is the most important and "wins" the most games. |
| JiK MAZZSuper Regular WMD Creator P: 05/07/2024 09:10 | So far this is playing out exactly as I expected lol. |
| XenOz3r0xTSuper Regular Shotgun Quick Draw P: 05/07/2024 10:48 | Soldier. Jack of all trades |
| [IOD]SnipsSuper Regular Speed Sniping Master P: 05/07/2024 12:09 | If a defense has nobody protecting the basement entrances and has only one SG, then a 74 cent sale player will eventually grab their flag. It really depends on the makeup of the defense & how full the server is to determine a "must-have" class. A demo blowing up 3 SG guns with his brief life opens the door for the scout or medic behind him. But you have to find a demo with a brain willing to only get 3 points for delivering that potential team victory moment instead of getting 6 points blowing people up around main respawn instead. Beyond skill, which class typically cares about breaking a tied match? Care about protecting your flag when it's temporarily in danger? The intent of the gamer in playing in an influential way to the outcome of the match to get the most flag captures is what matters in the end. |
| [IOD]SnipsSuper Regular Speed Sniping Master P: 05/07/2024 12:22 | There is a pyro crying in a corner somewhere asking "There's only 8 colors, where is my vote on here?" haha... The tricky thing too is that soldier & demoman are such strong defensive AND offensive classes so they're probably stronger on the list overall. It seems like gamers are more likely to switch from offense to defense more if their class can handle both roles. When your team cries out that their flag is in danger, your offensive medic or scout will keep pushing for their flag more often than not. Even when your flag is on the upper spiral on the tipping point where a single player helping to defend it might make that game changing difference. Classes tend to create tunnel vision that it's up to each gamer to overcome. |
| [IOD]SnipsSuper Regular Speed Sniping Master P: 05/07/2024 12:40 | On defense I would want Xeno as soldier > Engineer with SG + Dispenser. But you take a typically skilled player and I would take the engineer over soldier anyday in the basement. A great soldier in the basement is scary powerful though. I'd take a flexible intelligent engineer over a soldier overall however. If an engineer is capable of leaving their basement to setup offensive tele's and NOT lose their teams flag while they're gone then that extra time saving pressure the other team is forced to deal with can have a huge impact too. That is a very hard balancing act to do however. An empty basement with only SG guns is easy to overtake if a medic or scout decide to visit. When someone with a mic yells that their flag is in danger, I see half their team pour in to see their flag still in the basement. However when nobody with a mic says anything and the message showing their flag was just dropped in their spiral, like 1 or 2 people seem to switch to defend their prized flag. |
| gg#4Super Regular Killer Scout P: 05/07/2024 13:23 | This server has such shit regular engineers that people forget how important intelligent engineers are. Engineers are the only class that can help on offense while simultaneously defend at the same time. A soldier on bottom spiral, while crucial cannot help offense and still guard the position. You also need that bottom spiral soldier to defend the SG that the engineer is leaving behind however. But with 5 engineers. 3 can stay behind and repair/guard and the other 2 can build O teles, clear pipe traps, replenish armor, setup O dispensers and still do damage with weapons. Id rather have 5 intelligent engies than 5 intelligent soldiers. |
| VishusSuper Regular Soldier Flag Defense P: 05/07/2024 14:14 | Jik Mazz, for including sniper as an option and not pyro, I will personally hunt you down and I will burn you. I think the question is best separated into offense and defense. Offense: Medic undoubtedly in most situations. There are times though,(typically on a full server with multiple heavy D classes) when a medic push just doesn't have the damage output to gain ground. Sometimes I switch to soldier and make better progress. This is most often with the support of other team medics, however, so medic is the answer. Defense: Soldier. A competent soldier can lock down most of the basement. You could have a gaggle of engies running around down there with SGs but without soldier support they will soon be liquidated. There will be no survivors. |
| BackalleybuttloveSuper Regular Crack-Powered Capper P: 05/07/2024 14:47 | Great thread. While I think gg#4 made some good points about engineer I still think medic is the "must-have" to win matches. If we use the most amount of caps as the determining metric then based on that it appears that medic is the must have. A cursory glance at the stats indicates that the medic class has the most caps. Correlation of course does not necessarily mean causation. I'll often use the strategy gg#4 mentioned: leave SG behind in basement as I play on offense as engie and going back to defense when necessary. But is that necessarily a "must-have?" As level1 aptly pointed out, being strictly good at defense isn't going to win games. At best you'll get a stalemate, at worst you lose. Speaking from person experience from occasionally playing defensive engineer I think a decent medic is a must have to win matches. They are the class that give me the most grief when I'm on defense in the basement as an engineer. I can usually fend off any other class as engineer but medics can off me with a nade and then use another nade and nail gun to take out my sg before it gets them. I can also relate to this when I'm on offense as sometimes I'll switch from scout to medic if to help fight the defenses in the enemy basement. |
| -[IBSC]-iLluSiON-Daycare Manager Killer Scout P: 05/07/2024 16:58 | Random class. |
| HelpSuper Regular Soldier Flag Defense P: 05/07/2024 20:17 | Tossing decent out of the picture, engineer is always the class I’m praying for at the start of the round. SGs are phenomenal at shoring up a defense, and allows defenders to feel safe to break away on offense when needed. Without knowing the team members, would you rather have 3 medics and no engies on the team or vise versa. |
| neseSuper Regular Rocket Jumping Capper P: 05/07/2024 23:17 | Vishus wrote: Jik Mazz, for including sniper as an option and not pyro, I will personally hunt you down and I will burn you. I think the question is best separated into offense and defense. Offense: Medic undoubtedly in most situations. There are times though,(typically on a full server with multiple heavy D classes) when a medic push just doesn't have the damage output to gain ground. Sometimes I switch to soldier and make better progress. This is most often with the support of other team medics, however, so medic is the answer. Defense: Soldier. A competent soldier can lock down most of the basement. You could have a gaggle of engies running around down there with SGs but without soldier support they will soon be liquidated. There will be no survivors. I second all of this. |
| gg#4Super Regular Killer Scout P: 05/08/2024 07:48 E: 05/08/2024 07:49 | They are mostly all important. There's a reason 4v4 have a demo, engie, hw and soldier. They compliment each other well. This is a team game after all. And yes offensive tellies are important. How many times have you had a flag leak out and hear over the mic oh....there was a tele in ele. They get heavy classes over just as quick if not quicker than them nade jumping over but with the benefit of having full nades, full armor and full health. The benefit of 5 engies is that you can lock a base down with less and those 5 engies some can help offense. I feel much better as a bottom spiral soldier when there are SGs. A wave offense where one medic does damage and the 2nd finishes off the soldier or sneaks in when they resupply makes that position tough to defend. I usually try and alternate positions with a bottom ele soldier. Bottom spiral gets damaged I replace them as they resupply since getting back to bottom ele position from resupply is easier and vice versa. |
| JiK MAZZSuper Regular WMD Creator P: 05/08/2024 14:37 | Vishus wrote: Jik Mazz, for including sniper as an option and not pyro, I will personally hunt you down and I will burn you. You'll try but you'll get blown up! But honestly I originally wasn't going to include scout, sniper, or spy either. I decided after starting the post to include them just because there's enough options for it. There are only maybe 3 players who play a decent pyro on the server, and I have no problem killing any of them. I'm not amazing at this game. Ergo, Pyros are weak. :) |
| XenOz3r0xTSuper Regular Shotgun Quick Draw P: 05/08/2024 14:48 | Lots of good ideas, suggestions, etc. however it sucks that games are never organized enough to implement almost a threat that was said. And I don’t mean like things have to be organized like competitive play but lots of games lack so much communication and coordination and people rather play TFC like team deathmatch. |
| Ignorant_FloristDaycare Manager Pipebomb Monkey P: 05/08/2024 18:14 | [IOD]Snips wrote: A demo blowing up 3 SG guns with his brief life opens the door for the scout or medic behind him. But you have to find a demo with a brain willing to only get 3 points for delivering that potential team victory moment instead of getting 6 points blowing people up around main respawn instead. 🙋♀️ |
| Ignorant_FloristDaycare Manager Pipebomb Monkey P: 05/08/2024 18:28 | To follow up on my above post.... when I play Offense, I love playing as a Demoman. Not because I intend to grab the flag and run like Hell with it... But so that I can clear a path so that a lighter class (Medic or Scout) can do that part. If I'm still alive and in a position to touch the flag, and maybe move it a bit to reset the timer.... I'll do it. But my main goal in playing O is to disrupt the Defense. Period. Create a hole that a faster class can get through, grab the flag, and run like a suspect from a cop. If I can find somewhere to hide "behind enemy lines"... I'll take that opportunity, also. The info I relay will help other O players break through the Defense, and maybe I can take out an SG or two to help in that, while still remaining hidden (or at the start of my own disruptive run). Spies are really only useful when FF is on, which is why I prefer rounds like that. If you shoot a "team member", and they bleed.... you may not notice that it also caused YOU damage in the heat of the moment.... so you blast them a few more times. On the other hand, if you shoot a "team member", they don't bleed and you take no damage.... then you KNOW they aren't a Spy. But you've still removed some of their armour, and likely pissed them off. Chaos causes opportunity, and that's where Spies work the best. With FF off, you're removing a large part of that equation and changing the dynamic of the game. If you guys want to know WHY I prefer FF being on, that's why. |
| 9x P: 05/08/2024 20:19 | A wave offense where one medic does damage and the 2nd finishes off the soldier or sneaks in when they resupply makes that position tough to defend. But what do i know. |
| gg#4Super Regular Killer Scout P: 05/09/2024 10:18 | Huh? I dont think I ever accused you of not knowing the game. I like playing with you and always willing to help when we play together. |
| -[IBSC]-iLluSiON-Daycare Manager Killer Scout P: 05/09/2024 13:22 | I second the fact. A trailing medic is awesome. Sometimes D doesn't expect it. If a lead medic goes into basement from spiral and does initial damage, the trailing medic can wait a few moments then go in and finish it off. Sometimes the d sollies are running back for health at that point |
| JiK MAZZSuper Regular WMD Creator P: 05/09/2024 14:37 | My experience has been that one mediocre soldier and one mediocre engy can stop nearly any single player coming down spiral or ele. But attacking in waves is all it takes to ruin that because there's not enough time to repair/rebuild SG and dispenser, and visit resupply for the solly. If the solly is very good it's possible he can be left alone at bottom spiral with the SG as backup, but that depends on how good the attackers are and how many there are. |
| gg#4Super Regular Killer Scout P: 05/09/2024 14:42 | Exactly...waves...its all...about...the...waves... |
| sneakypete P: 05/15/2024 17:14 | Nine out of ten times I join a game, there are no medics. |
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